Episode 24, The Reformation Of Harry Briscoe

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

Episode: 24 (S2E9)

Title: The Reformation of Harry Briscoe

Notes: This episode marks the beginning of a new era in terms of the canon about Heyes' and Curry's backgrounds.

Summary: A simple act of kindness to two nuns with a broken-down wagon leads to trouble for Heyes and Curry.

Notable guest stars: J.D. Cannon (Harry Briscoe), Jane Wyatt (Sister Julia), Jane Merrow (Sister Isabel/Molly Cusack), Dub Taylor (Jim)

Quote:
Molly: "Smith and Jones... And you were saying how you tried and it didn't work. I think I'm beginning to understand. You were thieves yourselves. [...] That'd be just my luck to fall in with a couple of reformed thieves. They're the worst kind."

Screencap:

Comments

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

This episode was pretty average, I thought, the boys' third outing with (former) Bannerman detective Harry Briscoe.

The biggest notable here is that this is where canon changed about Kid's and Heyes' childhoods and background. Up until now (through the first 23 episodes of the series), they didn't say much about the boys' histories (although they did say more about Heyes than about the Kid). But it was very clearly indicated that they did not know each other as children, that they became outlaws separately, then met up as young adults, and had been partners for about 5 years as of when the series started.

In this episode, the new canon was revealed to be the following:

- They are both from Kansas.

- Neither one is Catholic.

- They both lost their folks in the Border Wars, making them orphans.

- After they were orphaned, they were sent to the Valparaiso School for Waywards (some kind of juvie/reform school?).

- They ran away from this "home for orphans" at 15 years old (note that it was indicated they were both 15 at this point, i.e. the same age, even though their wanted posters indicated that Heyes is 2 years older than Kid).

- Kid is Irish (did everybody know that? is "Curry" a standard Irish name?)

- Still no mention of them being cousins yet, though. They mentioned that the Kid's grandparents came from Londonderry and Heyes said his came from England.

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

Did you think there was any sense that they were making it up? (as I say hopefully). Maybe two wanted men from Wyoming associated with a well known outlaw hide out in Utah would come up with a cover story of being from Kansas.

I would say how Heyes matter of factly lets it drop that they were orphans, then Kid picks it up with a specific orphanage. Maybe he made it up? We know Kid can think fast on his feet and if it was a prepared story, then it would not be too hard to throw that out.

Also Kid saying they were 15 when they ran away and it has been thought that Heyes is two years older. Not that wanted posters should be any reliable source. Heyes tells Soapy back in Diamonds that the wanted poster descriptions were wrong.

The only glitch in my thinking is how Heyes says to Kid privately after the nun leaves that he was worried if Kid talked any longer, he would have revealed they had prices on their heads. But, as Vic therentgirls is fond of commenting, can we trust anything they say to anyone is the truth. I would think that could mean a nun as well. Maybe (again hopefully) Heyes was just commenting that Kid was running out of cover story fast.

Still no mention of cousins yet. I am grateful for that at least.

Curry *is* a pretty well known Irish name. Funny though that Kid forgot he was Jones. I would not be surprised if Heyes' comment to Molly about his parents being from England was not just a sarcastic response.

Did you recognize Jim (the wagon driver) as the toothless wonder who blew their cover in San Juan to Blanche?

I have to wonder why Sam did not kill Briscoe. He seemed willing enough to kill everyone at the campsite. Loved the guys approaching where Sam was laying low. Interesting that Heyes would take the lead. Still loved the way they seemed to move together like reading each other's minds. This is something they have probably done before.

Loved them playing BJ together. How many times did Heyes hit Kid and he only got to 16? Funnier still that Dealer (Heyes) wins with only 17. There must be many nights where they find ways to amuse themselves with card games. I can totally buy that Heyes could feel a light deck.

Also, loved their comments about getting into that poker game. Heyes thinks he must need to reserve a seat a month in advance; Kid is sure one has to be born into the game to get a seat. The absolute anguish as someone wins with a pair of face cards and telling Briscoe how excruciating it is to watch bad poker players lose to each other.

For my baser observations, I could not help but notice how Heyes and Curry slept together away from the campfire. Must have wanted some privacy. Also, how HOT did they look in those chaps. Chaps just have a wonderful way of *uhm* framing things.

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

Did you think there was any sense that they were making it up?

I read your previous conversation, so I watched it with that in mind. The way Heyes looked at the Kid when he mentioned "The Home", might have been like "what the hell are you talking about?" But then when he went ahead and smoothly picked up the story, I think that look could be interpreted as "why the hell are you telling her our life story that we try to keep secret?"

So I don't think it was just made up, mostly because of the line afterwards you mention that Heyes said to the Kid (privately) about if he talked to the nun a minute more, he'd have confessed their entire lives to her. So, no, I think TPTB just changed canon at this point.

Funny though that Kid forgot he was Jones.

He did forget for a moment, but isn't "Jones" a Scottish name or Welsh or something? I thought once she mentioned that he was "Jones" he was going to cover that his family moved from Scotland (or Wales) to Ireland before immigrating to the US.

Did you recognize Jim (the wagon driver) as the toothless wonder who blew their cover in San Juan to Blanche?

No. As I mentioned before, there are so many duplicate actors, especially in bit parts, I really don't pay attention.

I have to wonder why Sam did not kill Briscoe. He seemed willing enough to kill everyone at the campsite.

Sam talked about killing people, but did he actually kill anybody? No. Maybe he's just a bag of hot air that likes to talk big.

Loved the guys approaching where Sam was laying low. Interesting that Heyes would take the lead. Still loved the way they seemed to move together like reading each other's minds. This is something they have probably done before.

That was cool. Obviously practiced.

How many times did Heyes hit Kid and he only got to 16?

That was funny. Obviously meant to be a joke. I didn't count how many cards he got, but he must have gotten like aces and 2's the entire time.

telling Briscoe how excruciating it is to watch bad poker players lose to each other.

That was a funny line.

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

So, no, I think TPTB just changed canon at this point.

Well, my barge is supplied and ready to sail. My favorite river is clear sailing. I guess I will just be heading out sooner than anticipated. *g*

I am going to go with cover story. Like the Winchester safe words, every great partnership has its own language.

but isn't "Jones" a Scottish name or Welsh or something?

I googled Jones and came up with: meaning = Family of John; origin = England.

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

I googled "Jones" as well, and the source that I saw said it was the most common surname in Wales, and the origin was Welsh and English (genealogy.about.com).

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

You know that Murphy is a standard Irish name. *g*

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

One thing that is confusing, though, about the timeline, is that according to Wikipedia, the Kansas Border War happened in 1854-58 or so, and if Kid is 27 and Heyes is 29, then the series has got to be set earlier than we thought, for them to have been alive during that time, right?

For example, if it is 1885, then Kid was born in 1858, at the end of the Border War. Or if it is earlier, like 1880, Kid was born in 1853, right before the border war, and if he lost his parents during the border war, he would have been less than 5 years old at the time (and Heyes only 2 years older).

In The Men Who Corrupted Hadleyburg, didn't they say Kid was 10 when the border war started, so he was born in 1843? or was that he was 10 when the civil war started, meaning he was born in 1851, and the current year is 1878?

It's confusing...

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

If we go by the posters and what Kid says in Everything Else You Can Steal, then I figure their ages like this. 1879 is when they pulled their last big job where Heyes blew the P&H '78 at the Merchant's Bank in Denver. The ages on the wanted posters are 27 and 29. That would make Curry born around 1852ish and Heyes around 1850ish (plus or minus a year or two). The Civil War began in 1861; Curry would be around 10 years old. The Denver job happened a year and a half ago according to Harry Waggoner. That puts the timeline for the series into the early 1880s.

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

I guess the Pierce & Hamilton 1878 does give us a stake in the sand, assuming that the "1878" in the name indicates that's when it was first sold. So I guess if we ignore what they said to the nun that their folks were killed in the Border War, and re-phrase that as the Civil War, then I think most things fit better together.

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

Hey, if we can ignore what was said about the Border war, let's ignore what they said about Kansas and the orphanage too. *g*

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

That's certainly your prerogative :-)

But seriously, they've been so contradictory in what they've said throughout the series about the guys' backgrounds, you pretty much have to choose which things you want to believe and which things you're going to ignore. It is certainly legitimate to believe the canon that was in effect for about the first 23 episodes of the series and ignore the rest.

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

I just watched that scene in TMWCH, and they just say "the war" and not which war. So if we are to assume they are referring to the war that they've already talked about (the border war), then that means that the boys were 10 in 1854, born in 1844, and if they are in their late 20's now, then the show takes place in the early 1870's. I didn't think it was that early.

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Timeline is problematic. There are many other things that keep coming up as well. Like the Brown Palace Hotel is mentioned by Heyes in The Posse that wouldn't quit. That hotel did not open until 1892. Also, that payroll in Root of it All, wasn't that supposed to have been buried for 20 years? That would place the series in the mid to late 1880s. I think my general preference is that the show takes place during the late 1880s to early 1890s. It is based on nothing but my preference. It is like the cousins thing, just pick what you like because TPTB were obviously ambivalent.

TMWCH?

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

Apparent the ASJ PTB can't read a map, or a history book...

TMWCH?

The Men Who Corrupted Hadleyburg, of course :-)

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

LOL. It is really sad too since most of the episodes were supervised by the same guy. It is definitely not a situation of too many cooks in the kitchen. I don't think shows had the same ideas about continuity they do today.

TMWCH. ::thunk:: I figured it out after I sent the post this morning. I think I always assumed they were talking about the civil war in that bit by the lake. I think when someone from this country talks about "the" war in the late 1800s, it is pretty much assumed they are talking about the big one. Kinda like someone in the 40s talking about the war meaning WWII.

BTW, TMWCH is a really painful episode for me to watch for a number of reasons. I promise you will not see it on my favorites list.

[tigerlily0.livejournal.com]

Every show that I've watched closely at all, the continuity totally sucks (The O.C., The Fugitive, Prison Break, etc.), so I don't think it has gotten any better.

I had assumed that "the war" was the Civil War, too, but when they were talking, they indicated that the parents being killed happened after "the war" started, and they earlier said that the folks were killed in the border war, so either TPTB are being contradictory, or "the war" H&C are talking about is the border war.

Heh, I haven't rewatched TMWCH yet, but from what I remember, it is in my top 3 favorite eps. par for the course, huh? :-)

[simonesa.livejournal.com]

I will wait until the episode discussion to really let loose on TMWCH. Yes exactly par LOL. I tell you that I get such joy seeing your email in my box. I don't know what I will do with myself when these discussions are over. ::hugs::

I know what you mean about the continuity thing. I do think they try a bit harder these days though. So many shows are seeing the point of long storylines that develop over a season. Joss Whedon was the master. The only time I had a problem with his continuity was the movie Serenity with the tv series Firefly. I think in ASJ days, it was very much single episode tv. Everything was supposed to stand alone and all plots resolve in one episode.